Episode Transcript

Comma Splice
Episode 45: March 15, 2007

Grammar Girl here.

This is the special Scott Sigler Ancestor episode, and the topic is comma splices. As I've mentioned in previous episodes, Scott is well known for podcasting his first science fiction novel called Earthcore. It turns out that Scott and I have a mutual friend, and Scott asked me if I'd like a review copy of his book and if I'd take a look at his grammar.

Normally, I don't like to use sentences written by real people as examples of bad writing because it seems mean, but Scott practically begged me to be brutal, and the guy uses commas like confetti, so I'm going to use clips from his books to illustrate how not to use a comma. Plus, he killed a character I liked in his book, so it feels kind of good to be mean to him.

Commas are tricky because there are so many different ways you can use them, but one of the most common ways to use commas is to separate two main clauses that are connected by a coordinating conjunction. That just means that when you join two things that could be sentences on their own with a word such as “and,” “but,” or “or,” you need a comma before the conjunction. For example, Squiggly ran to the forest, and aardvark chased the pet peeves. Squiggly ran to the forest is a complete sentence, and Aardvark chased the pet peeves is also a complete sentence. To join them with a comma, you need the word “and” or some other coordinating conjunction. If you just put a comma between them—[wrong] Squiggly ran to the forest, aardvark chased the pet peeves—that's an error called a “comma splice” or a “comma fault.”

Comma splices seem to be Scott Sigler's biggest grammar problem. Here's an example from page 114 of Ancestor, where one of the characters is talking about a cow:

[wrong] Sara obviously named that one, she was a sucker for those old “Happy Days” reruns.
 
It's easy to see in that example why the error is called a comma splice: it's because the comma is used to splice together two complete sentences when that isn't the function of a comma.

The good news is that it's easy to fix a comma splice once you are aware of the problem. Because the two clauses are complete sentences, you can treat them that way and use a period where you had a comma. Sara obviously named that one. She was a sucker for those old “Happy Days” reruns. It's a period's job to separate complete sentences. 

If the two sentences are closely related to each other, as they are in Scott's sentence, you can use a semicolon to connect them without a coordinating conjunction. Sara obviously named that one; she was a sucker for those old “Happy Days” reruns. The semicolon makes sense because the second clause expands on the reasoning of the first clause. He's saying that it's obvious that Sara named the cow because she liked “Happy Days” reruns and the cow is named after a “Happy Days” character.

I hadn't thought about it this way before, but you could consider a semicolon a “sentence splicer” because its job is to splice complete sentences together. (I covered semicolons two weeks ago in episode #42, where you can  learn more about when it's appropriate to use a semicolon if it still isn't clear.)

Sometimes, you can also fix a comma splice by adding a coordinating conjunction. It doesn't work with Scott's sentence because it doesn't make any sense to add an “and” or any of the other coordinating conjunctions. It doesn't make sense to say [wrong] Sara obviously named that one, and she was a sucker for those old “Happy Days” reruns. But if I go back to the sentence from before—Squiggly ran to the forest, and aardvark chased the peeves—you can see that it makes sense to connect those two sentences with a coordinating conjunction and a comma.

Let's take one more of Scott's mangled sentences and see if we can fix it!

This one is from page 29, where he is talking about how one of the characters lured in investors for his "evil plan.”

[wrong] They were getting it, he had them.

So in the comma splice repair kit, we've got periods, semicolons, and coordinating conjunctions.

The period definitely works: They were getting it. He had them.
The semicolon works because the two clauses are related: They were getting it; he had them.
And in this case we can add a coordinating conjunction to fix the problem too: They were getting it, and he had them.

So, I hope you get it! Commas aren't meant to join main clauses all by themselves; to force them into that role is to perpetrate a comma splice. That's bad, but it's easy to fix.

And now, it's finally time for the book giveaway a lot of you have been waiting for. The three prerelease review copies of Ancestor, generously donated by Scott Sigler, go to Mike J, Simone in Ontario, and John in Denver. Thanks again to Scott for donating the books and for making such useful grammar errors.

Questions and comments for me, Grammar Girl, go to feedback@quickanddirtytips.com or the voicemail line at 206-338-GIRL. You can find a full transcript of this podcast at QuickAndDirtyTips.com. This week Money Girl talks about the Solo 401(k), and Modern Manners talks about etiquette at the gym (including steam room etiquette), so be sure to check them out as well as all the other shows. 

Thanks for listening.

Advanced

Here are some other ways to fix a comma splice.

Make one of the main clauses a subordinating clause:
[wrong] Squiggly ran, aardvark hid.
[right] Because Squiggy ran, aardvark hid.
Make one of the main clauses a phrase:
[wrong] Aardvarks are the most noble nocturnal animal, they free us from ants.
[right] Aardvarks--the most noble nocturnal animal--free us from ants.

There are rare specific cases where it is acceptable to join complete sentences using just a comma. Yes, I just said comma splices are allowed in some cases. For example, the authors of the grammar handbook Things Your Grammar Never Told You say it is acceptable to use commas to join very short sentences that are exactly parallel: I came, I saw, I conquered. Strunk & White give similar advice in The Elements of Style. Nevertheless, I don't recommend using commas in this way.


Comments (54) for Comma Splice |  Subscribe to Comment

laura Sieve Says:
10/10/2008 9:36:36 AM
In this sentence, are the commas coorect? "It will be Friday, October 17 from 12-3." Thanks!
Thank You Says:
9/19/2008 3:10:29 PM
I'm, so, glad, I, know, how, to, use, commas, now. I, was, so, un, sure.
Christine Newkirk Says:
7/13/2008 4:15:23 PM
Please clarify when to use commas after adverbial phrases, gerunds, and infinitives. I seem to use commas more liberally than many respected writers out there. Help!
Zed Says:
4/14/2008 9:21:45 AM
Dear Grammar Girl, I just downloaded this particular topic on podcast. It's a really good topic on commas but I would like to know if these rules of using commas apply to fiction writing as well? Because I've read some of the English translation of Marquez's writings and he sprinkled commas all over his very long sentences. Example: "As soon as he closed the bedroom door the sound of a pistol shot echoed through the house. A trickle of blood came out under the door, crossed the living room, went out into the street, continued on in a straight line across the uneven terraces, went down steps and climbed over curbs, passed along the Street of the Turks, turned a corner to the right and another to the left, made a right angle at the Buendía house, went in under the closed door, crossed through the parlor, hugging the walls so as not to stain the rugs, went on to the other living room, made a wide curve to avoid the dining room table, went along the porch with the begonias, and passed without being seen under Amaranta's chair as she gave an arithmetic lesson to Aureliano José, and went through the pantry and came out in the kitchen, where Úrsula was getting ready to crack thirty-six eggs to make bread." The very long prose above is beautifully and passionately written. The commas were used like such, almost like a pause button, to heighten the suspense and the anticipation of the narrative structure, but is it grammatically sound? I'm an aspiring fiction writer and sometimes I'm confused with certain rules of grammar whether they should be forcefully applied on creative writing, like the rules on using commas, thus sacrificing the narrative quality. On one end, most creative writing lecturers endlessly reminding aspiring writers to ignore some rules of grammar that we learned in school and to start writing unforced narrative structures, and on the other end we have grammar enthusiasts like yourself. Grammar Girl, please clarify. Thank you.
Jerriod Grizzle Says:
4/11/2008 3:34:01 PM
Dear. G.G. I am a newcomer to your column and podcast. I am a small town journalist here in South Carolina and while a lot of your tips make sense for papers and reports could you do an episode exclusively on journalism writing. I do like the fact you did include one part of this already when you covered percents.
anggun Says:
3/13/2008 6:38:00 AM
could you please tell me about the difference between say, talk, and speak...? if i want to make a sentence "those words were said/spoken/told everyday"
Bajpe Says:
3/11/2008 4:32:44 PM
I have few questions regarding certain usage of the comma. Two paragraphs from a recent NYT editorial: But the chairman of the Senate intelligence committee, John Rockefeller IV of West Virginia, disagreed strongly. He said the veto itself would hurt intelligence-gathering “in the name of preserving a separate C.I.A. interrogation program that Congress has determined is not necessary and, in fact, counterproductive.” Mr. Bush said the C.I.A. program helped “prevent a number of attacks,” but Mr. Rockefeller said he had “heard nothing” to suggest that was true. He also said any information the C.I.A. collected could have been obtained through legal methods. Why do we need a comma after: - 'and' in the first paragraph?( Please note that NYT usually doesn't use serial commas) - 'in fact' in the first paragraph? - 'attacks' in the second paragraph?
Su yeon Kim Says:
2/22/2008 8:52:03 AM
I'm a middle school student.(I'm from a South Korea!) So, I want study English through this website. I ask Grammar Girl next time!
Kathy Says:
1/28/2008 1:09:28 PM
I agree with Jodi and John Markos O'Neill. I was taught that "and" joins two independent clauses and, therefore, a comma is not required. It seems that the rules have changed in recent years.
Zack Says:
1/22/2008 9:39:37 AM
so noobish... wow.... psht...
OMEGAOWNAGE Says:
1/17/2008 11:50:51 AM
well, i gotta to say the comma splice is usefull, but when used you be very carefull, for if the comma splice is used wrong will give you a 1/10 on the grammer scales so wtach it -OMEGAOWNAGE
Carol Tveit Clarke Says:
1/6/2008 2:22:21 PM
Thanks for all the very relevant grammar tips.
asia pindell Says:
1/2/2008 3:36:40 PM
this is interesting.
Clare Lynch Says:
11/20/2007 1:42:25 PM
Thank you, Grammar Girl. I'd noticed that this phenomenon was becoming increasingly common and I never knew it had a formal description until today. I even noticed one on a big advertising hoarding for a major supermarket the other day, which was presumably written by a very well-paid advertising copywriter - doesn't bear thinking about! http://www.daccreative.co.uk/goodcopybadcopy/
Dawn L Says:
11/20/2007 12:57:21 PM
GG: You say, "Normally, I don't like to use sentences written by real people as examples of bad writing..." Is "bad writing" correct usage? I thought it should be "poor writing."
Clark Burrows Jester Says:
10/28/2007 11:34:23 PM
RE: commas Where do I live G.G.? Do I live in Milwaukee WI?, do I live in Milwaukee, WI?, or do I live in Milwaukee, Wisc.? Could I live in either in Milwaukee, Wisc. or Milwaukee OR? This is my question to you Grammar Girl. Cheers,
Bad at Punctuation Says:
5/21/2007 4:30:29 PM
In order to protect the empire from clans wanting to seize the throne, a new military system emerged, leading to a new military class called the samurai. are the commas in the correct place? are they not? why? Thanks!
Bad at Punctuation Says:
5/21/2007 4:26:51 PM
can you help wih this: The samurai had a way to behave, known as bushido, or "way of the warrior." do we put a comma after behave...because it is an individual clause
Ulrich Says:
5/8/2007 3:04:30 AM
what about this sentence... given by brentwood Int., finished course last week... Is the comma correctly used? Thanks
Mary Says:
5/2/2007 6:30:54 PM
Another question on commas: when listing more than two words should you put a comma before the word "and"? Example: "I woke up, got dressed, and went to work." versus "I woke up, got dressed and went to work." Which is correct?
Jodi Says:
5/1/2007 1:01:56 AM
Hey G.G., Thanks for the clarification. I guess I've either been using short clauses or my editors have been failing me. Keep up the great pc's. Love 'em!
Grammar Girl Says:
4/29/2007 7:57:25 PM
"The Associated Press Stylebook" says to use a comma before a conjunction when you are joining two independent clauses. There are some exceptions--for example, when the two clauses are very short--but in general, they say to use the comma.
Jodi Says:
4/27/2007 8:19:01 PM
I've published more than 1,000 articles in daily newspapers throughout Maine and have never used a comma before a coordinating conjunction and I don't believe a copy editor ever corrected me for doing so. So my question is, does AP style allow for leaving the comma out in this case? Personally I feel like the comma with a coordinating conjunction is redundant and just downright ugly (sorry, I'm also a visual artist). It seems to stop me in the flow of reading and I imagine I may not be alone in this. I had an editor once say that parentheses "stop the reader" and I feel like a comma in this case does the same thing. I'd be interested to know your take on this. Oh, and by the way, this is my first time posting but I've been listening, I think, since the beginning. The information you espouse is fascinating, thought-provoking and useful. I've recommended you to several associates and friends. Thanks for the great work!
Jeff Says:
4/2/2007 3:55:34 AM
Sure you can't use a coordinating conjunction in the sentence example? Sarah obviously named that one, for she was a sucker for those old Happy Days re-runs. Love your show! Jeff
Grammar Girl Says:
4/1/2007 5:51:24 PM
I'll cover this in a future episode, but the Quick and Dirty Tip is to take Steve out of the sentence and see how you would say it then. For example, if you were saying "I am going to the movies," then if you add Steve in, it would be "Steve and I are going to the movies."
Thersa Says:
4/1/2007 4:00:08 PM
Please explain the "Steve and I" and "Steve and me" question. Thanks, T
Carol Says:
3/29/2007 1:02:13 PM
HOw 'bout a discussion about different FROM, not different THAN. VERY popular mis-usage on TV etc. Love this site :-)
rosalind Says:
3/28/2007 2:19:13 PM
I thought it was "...how to not use a comma...," I see that you wrote "...how not to use a comma...." Please set me straight. Thank you.
rosalind Says:
3/28/2007 2:19:13 PM
I thought it was "...how to not use a comma...," I see that you wrote "...how not to use a comma...." Please set me straight. Thank you.
Marie Says:
3/26/2007 11:24:29 PM
Thanks for the clarification of comma splices; I've been vindicated! How about addressing Fewer vs. Less, and Greater vs. More. These are my pet peeves.
Jesse Says:
3/26/2007 12:27:08 AM
No sooner do I hit "submit" than I catch a mistake. "Nor" is the "n" member of the FANBOYS.
Jesse Says:
3/26/2007 12:22:41 AM
In the first example from the novel: Sara obviously named that one. + She was a sucker for those old “Happy Days” reruns. it occurred to me that you could use "for" as the coordinating conjunction. F or A nd N ot B ut O r Y et S o are the coordinating conjunctions, right? I suppose in this case, it would have been awkward to have two "for"s so close to each other. I'm a big fan of the semicolon, especially as a tool to add sentence variety.
John Markos O'Neill Says:
3/25/2007 7:47:14 AM
All these years I've been stingy with my commas! I thought that two independent clauses joined by a coordinating conjunction *never* warranted a comma between them. After some quick and dirty research, I admit my error, but it'll be hard to change now. Although I'm willing to keep an open mind, it still looks wrong to me.
Michael Says:
3/24/2007 4:52:20 AM
I think I may have fallen in love with you while listening to your comma segment.
yourdrum Says:
3/23/2007 5:56:06 PM
I, of the grammatically impaired, often wonder, if I could hang myself with a comma would it induce a coma, and I would never have to awake to my handicap. I have had to go through life with the sneers,and jeers of English teachers,and the grammatically superior. Not once did they look to see what I had written, but only viewed the wrapping. yourdrum
Alan Livingston Says:
3/23/2007 1:42:21 AM
I'm afraid I've been quilty of splicing sentences like this but leaving the comma out. I think I was under the assumption that all commas before "and" and "or" were optional due to the Oxford comma rule. Since I like to economize my use of punctuation, I always left the comma out. reading the comment on Wikipedia, it says the Oxford comma rule only applies to lists. Do you agree? Is the comma required when sentence splicing? regards, Alan
Sharon Says:
3/22/2007 10:11:25 PM
Totally unrelated topic and my latest nails-on-the-chalkboard pet peeve: isn't oftentimes redundant? There are lots of adverbs of frequency out there. This one should just go away!
Drew Says:
3/22/2007 7:57:27 PM
In the second sentence you presented for scrutiny ("They were getting it, he had them"), might not a colon have been an appropriate choice? I don't have much context, so I may be misinterpreting the sentence, but if the sentence meant, "They were beginning to realize that he had them", then it seems like a colon would do a fine job, since the second clause would be describing the "it" that they were "getting". "They were getting it: he had them." Is that correct?
tai chi kat Says:
3/21/2007 3:31:56 PM
Grammar Girl, I appreciated clarification on the use of commas, which leads me to another problem; when and how are parenthesis to be used? I love to use them, but I don't know why. I'm sure I overuse them. What is implied by parenthesis? Thanks, Kat
Sundaram Says:
3/21/2007 8:39:18 AM
AM I am not able to download the audio files either form your site or using iTunes. Kindly help me get the episodes posted in March 07
Dono Says:
3/21/2007 4:05:41 AM
"Good" is an adjective, so it modifies nouns. "Well" is an adverb, so it modifies verbs. So if someone is asking about the state of your health or mind, you should say "I'm doing well." If, however, they are asking whether you are doing good things or evil things in the world, you would say "I'm doing good." But in this case, "good" is a noun. There are exceptions, of course. "Good" can be used adverbially as in "Grammar girl has a good many listeners." That may be slightly non-standard, but it's common in many dialects. Atheletes, unfortunately, often misuse "good". For example, "He was hitting the ball real good out there today." Since "hit" is a verb in this case, you should use "well". "Hit" also works as a noun, so "He got a good, timely hit down the right field foul line," also works.
Thomas Says:
3/20/2007 4:11:01 PM
Aardvarks are the most noble nocturnal animal, but not the most noble nocturnal animals ? Is Aardvarks plural ? (Ok, I´m German, so might sound like a stupid question) Thanks, Thomas
Jennifer Says:
3/19/2007 9:18:55 PM
When separating two clauses, is it also possible to use a dash and still be grammically correct? I have developed a habit of using a dash in such circumstances, but I'm not sure if it is always grammatically correct.
Zippy Says:
3/19/2007 7:53:59 PM
Is there a way to ask Grammar Girl to help out with "good" versus "well" and when it is appropriate to use them? For instance, when someone asks me how I am, am I "good" or "well?" Did I do "good" on the exam or "well?" Sometimes it's easy to tell from how things sound, but I find myself second-guessing myself at times.
Grammar Girl Says:
3/18/2007 3:01:10 PM
In American English, periods and commas go inside quotation marks.
Tommy Says:
3/18/2007 12:53:16 PM
Thank you for the help. I have been listening to your podcast for some time, but I have not taken the opportunity to leave a comment. I have enjoyed this podcast and "dashing through the snow the most." By the way, when you are placing a name of an article or podcast in quotations, do you place a period before the quotations?
aardvark (the noble one) Says:
3/17/2007 11:16:25 PM
Aardvark took this question seriously because the phrase within the dashes, “the most noble nocturnal animal”, is near and dear to his late night heart. The phrase is an appositional phrase, and as defined in Harry Shaw’s Punctuate It Right! (p.82) “ Words in apposition follow another word or group of words and serve to identify or explain them.” Appositives are usually nonrestrictive and are set off by commas, so to use commas around the above named phrase could be correct. However, the words Grammar Girl selected to rename the noun “aardvark” are ones that she wanted to place emphasis upon. Mr. Shaw goes on to say, “Use a pair of dashes to enclose words or ideas which you want to emphasize sharply or emphatically or with which you wish to achieve some distinct stylistic effect. Long appositional phrases are often enclosed by dashes.” (p.98) One unrelated but pertinent tidbit (not ants) to add to this discussion about dashes vs. commas comes from Correct Writing by Butler, Hickman, McAlexander and Overby, (p.260). “ Use dashes to set off an appositive or a parenthetical element that is internally punctuated.” Aardvark’s friends—Squiggly, Grammar Girl, and Mr. Fragalot—are taking him to dinner Saturday night.
Dick Holmes Says:
3/16/2007 7:40:45 PM
You might have used a semi-colon after "think twice". Semi-colon nut.
Scott Sigler Says:
3/16/2007 6:47:48 PM
This is great! Who would think it's fun to be offered up for public executition, but this has been immensely helpful to me. The thing with semi-colons is you don't see them in "regular writing" very much, and I think the jump out at the reader - they are not "invisible" like commas, periods and quotes. My goal is to make the reader forget that they are reading, so punctuation like that has always made me think twice. However, I now see the light - thank you Grammar Girl! -Scott-
Dick Holmes Says:
3/16/2007 5:26:18 PM
In the Aardvark example, you used "m" dashes to set off the nonrestrictive clause; could you have used commas?
Dana Huff Says:
3/16/2007 3:34:07 PM
Thanks for covering this one! I am in total agreement about not making exceptions (I came, I saw, I conquered.). I find it just confuses my students to teach them that. A lot of published writers could benefit from this podcast. I can't even read Philippa Gregory anymore -- she is so bad about using comma splices!
Grammar Girl Says:
3/16/2007 3:07:49 PM
You can join the two sentences with "because," but then you wouldn't use a comma (unless the adverbial clause--the part that starts with "because"--is nonessential). How to use a comma with a "because" clause is actually quite complicated. For example, you use a comma when the "because" clause follows a negated verb phrase: "Sara didn't name the cow, because she was gone the day it was born." You also need a comma when there could be confusion. The purple box on this page has a very good explanation. I could probably do a whole episode on this topic!
Tim Etherington Says:
3/16/2007 1:20:31 PM
Thank you for covering this! I had a feeling that I was overusing commas but didn't know how to curb my addiction. I'm going to listen to this episode a few times to make sure I get it.
Gene Says:
3/16/2007 12:02:46 PM
In the example [wrong] "Sara obviously named that one, she was a sucker for those old 'Happy Days' reruns." it seems to me that one could use "because" as the coordinating conjunction. "Sara obviously named that one, because she was a sucker for those old 'Happy Days' reruns."

Wouldn't that be correct?

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