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Woman Versus Female
Episode 137: September 23, 2008

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Grammar Girl here.

Today's show will cover the difference between the words woman and female.

But first, today we are proud to be sponsored by American Mensa, the high IQ society. As someone who's curious about the mechanics of grammar, you're sure to enjoy the company of Mensa members who are just as curious as you are. October 18 is Mensa Testing Day. Visit www.us.mensa.org to find a test site in your area. That sounds fun. www.us.mensa.org.

First we had Nancy Pelosi taking over as Speaker of the House, then Hillary Clinton running for president, and now we have Sarah Palin as the Republican vice presidential nominee. So the question is rising again—Is Sarah Palin the first female Republican vice presidential nominee or the first woman Republican vice presidential nominee?

Sexism

Before I answer the question, I want to address a related issue, which is that sometimes it's sexist to point out someone's sex because doing so implies that they aren't in their proper role. For example, saying someone is a male nurse or a female doctor wrongly implies that it's so unusual for men to be nurses or women to be doctors that you have to make a big deal out of it. But, given that Sarah Palin actually is the first woman to ever be the vice presidential nominee of the Republican Party and because it's a unique part of the story. In some cases, it is the story.

“Woman” as an Adjective

So then, what is the best way to talk about Sarah Palin being a woman? The words woman and man are primarily nouns, and to say someone is a woman nominee is placing woman in an adjective position. I checked four different dictionaries, and two don't include woman as an adjective (1, 2), one does (3), and the fourth said that when woman is used in the adjective position it's actually an appositive noun (4), in other words, a noun acting as an adjective. So the dictionaries don't give us a clear, definitive answer.

Testing the validity of the sentence by seeing how it sounds to substitute the word man for woman seems like a good way to see if the sentence makes sense. To me it sounds terribly awkward to say someone is the first man nominee. I imagine most of you would say He's the first male nominee, if the need arose. So, even though some sources say it's grammatically correct to use woman as an adjective, my opinion is that you should say Sarah Palin is the first female Republican vice presidential nominee.

With a perfectly acceptable adjective like female available, I don't see any reason to push woman into the role.

“Female” as a Noun

Now on the flip side, Liz from Austin, Texas, called in to say her pet peeve is when people refer to women as females, for example, when someone says, “I was chatting to some females.” To her, that sounds very scientific and awkward.

Merriam-Webster's Dictionary of English Usage notes that esteemed authors in the 1800s used female in this way. And these authors were women.

Jane Austen used the phrase the females of the family in Pride and Prejudice, for example, and Emily Brontë wrote It opened into the house, where the females were already astir in Wuthering Heights.

Yet even back in those times other people complained that using female in this way was demeaning (5), and I agree with Liz that it doesn't sound right today. Merriam-Webster's goes on to say that the neutral use of Austen and Brontë has faded away and the most common use of the word female now as a noun is to refer to lower animals. For example, if you were studying apes, you could say something like, “The females formed a small group to defend against the attackers,” (6).

It's my recommendation that you use female as a noun only when you are speaking about animals or writing scientifically. When you are talking about female humans, the favored nouns are woman and women. Likewise, when you're talking about male humans, the favored nouns are man and men.

“Girl” Versus “Woman”

Finally, over the last couple of years I've taken some flak for calling myself Grammar Girl instead of Grammar Woman. People have complained that Grammar Girl sounds like it is belittling me or that I'm too old to be considered a girl. What I have to say to those people is that I like the alliteration of Grammar Girl, and a true feminist would let me call myself anything I want. My mother raised me to believe I could be anything I wanted to be, and I want to be Grammar Girl.

Administrative

Don't forget to check out the Mensa website and look for a testing site in your area. The URL is www.us.mensa.org.

If you'd like to submit a question for the Grammar Girl show, the voicemail line is 206-338-4475 and the email address is feedback@quickanddirtytips.com.

And finally, why don't you join the many people who sign up for our free email newsletter every day? You'll get a free grammar tip in your in-box and information about upcoming events, book releases, free promotional book chapters, and new show launches. You can sign up using the red button in the left-hand sidebar at quickanddirtytips.com.

That's all. Thanks for listening.

References

1. woman. Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/woman (accessed September 22, 2008)

2. woman. Dictionary.com. The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition. Houghton Mifflin Company, 2004. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/woman (accessed: September 22, 2008).

3. woman. Dictionary.com. Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1). Random House, Inc. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/woman (accessed: September 22, 2008).

4. woman. Oxford English Dictionary. Second edition. Oxford University Press, http://tinyurl.com/4xu645 (accessed September 22, 2008).

5. Merriam-Webster's Dictionary of English Usage. Springfield: Merriam-Webster, 1994, pp. 440-41.

6. American Heritage Guide to Contemporary Usage and Style. Boston: Houghton Mifflin Company, 2005, pp. 180-81.

Cite This Article

APA Style

Fogarty, M. (2008, September 22) Women Rule. Grammar Girl's Quick and Dirty Tips for Better Writing. Retrieved [today's date], from http://grammar.quickanddirtytips.com/woman-versus-female.aspx

Chicago Style

Mignon Fogarty, “Women Rule,” Grammar Girl's Quick and Dirty Tips for Better Writing, September 22, 2008, http://grammar.quickanddirtytips.com/woman-versus-female.aspx (accessed [today's date]).

MLA Style

Fogarty, Mignon. “Women Rule.” Grammar Girl's Quick and Dirty Tips for Better Writing 22 Sept. 2008 [today's date] < http://grammar.quickanddirtytips.com/woman-versus-female.aspx>.

Comments (24) for Woman Versus Female | Subscribe to Comment

Craig Girolami Says:
11/18/2008 1:20:00 PM

Fun and interesting as always. Keep up the good work. craig

gummybear Says:
10/9/2008 12:18:27 PM

kool web site

GrammarBoy Says:
10/8/2008 7:53:26 AM

Interesting and good points, although i agree with Shary that the lead in does a discussion of sex versus gender and little was said about that. That aside, I have always wondered the origin of using "woman" and "women" as adjectives but not "man" and "men." This seems sexist to me. Yes, I agree that say "man nurse" and "men models" sounds awkward, but that is because this sort of usage is new and uncommon. There was a time, in our lifetimes no less, that referring to females in non-traditional areas with the adjective "woman" and "women" was considered awkward as well. Nowadays, woman doctors and woman lawyers and other appellations is perfectly acceptable. The reasons are that the more English-speaking people use these appositives, the more acceptable they become. Ideally, of course, we would live in a world where we wouldn't need to use them. But in the meantime, I would like to see the use of man as an adjective more often. Like woman, it lends itself to a nuance less biological, less clinical than saying "male."

WR Says:
10/7/2008 1:41:21 AM

Much harm is done to nonhuman animals because of the reflexive excuse that we are "better" than them. Being different is no reason to kill or torture someone, but this mythology of higher and lower animals perpetuates violence. If the only objection to using "male" and "female" as nouns is that it reminds us that we are animals when we desperately want to imagine ourselves as something else, then this is no objection at all.

Anang Says:
9/30/2008 8:02:11 AM

Thanks for this site, it's really helpful. However I would suggest that, you comment on each comment left by readers of this site. May be, that would help them to understand you better. Why do some people say: "There is two reason..."in stead of: "there are two reasons"?

Adam Says:
9/29/2008 8:50:09 AM

R.E. your use of "girl" in "Grammar Girl," I just want to point out that most of the time when I use the word "girl" it is because it implies informality rather than immaturity. That is, for me, it is usually the female equivalent of "guy", rather than "boy". "Woman" sounds a little too proper and "lady" too silly to use when referring to someone in casual everyday conversation. "I met a really nice girl at the library today" sounds more like a friendly encounter than the same sentence would if you substitute "woman." (Try the same with "man", "boy", "guy", etc. - I know it depends heavily on the person speaking and the person listening, but each version has slightly different connotations.) Years ago, I had a friend who disliked all uses of the word "girl" that did not refer to pre-pubescent females. It seems to me that informality is the primary motivation for using "girl" in place of "woman" - "Grammar Girl" sounds much more friendly than "Grammar Woman" (although if you were to hand the podcast over to a guy, "Grammar Man" would sound kind of like a superhero). What do you think?

carlos Says:
9/26/2008 2:53:08 PM

what if there is a mix of women and girls? can one say females?

alexthebird Says:
9/25/2008 9:23:48 PM

There is another distinction that is sometimes made between female and women that also touches on the distinction between gender and sex. In the transgender community, female and sex are usually linked to genetic or biological differences while woman and gender are linked to cultural or social distinctions. So, for example, a male person (someone born with a penis and testicles) could be a woman if she presented an image to the world that most people associated with women (dresses, long hair, breasts/breast forms, etc). A shorthand phrase that is often cited is that female/male/sex refers to what is between the legs, while woman/man/gender refers to what is between the ears.

Craig Says:
9/25/2008 1:50:14 PM

I have to disagree with your assertion that the use of "female" as a noun should always be avoided except in a scientific context. In both examples you mentioned (Austen and Brontë), the author used "females" to refer to a mix of women and girls. In this case "females" is the appropriate word.

rpmason Says:
9/25/2008 11:08:54 AM

A.T., A good site for reference material is Bartleby dot com. Some of the material is very old and outdated, but they have 1995's Roget's Thesaurus, which is a good source for idioms. Off hand, I also don't know of a site that lists idioms and slang terms.

Jan Crews Says:
9/25/2008 10:01:10 AM

Hear, hear! I love the Grammar Girl alliteration, and the Southern Belle in me would have said, "My mama raised me . . .". Thanks for another great issue.

Mike Says:
9/25/2008 9:55:46 AM

Joy-Mari, The spelling "flack" is usually used for the slang term for a press agent, according to AP style. And speaking of newspapers and the original reason for coming here: In regard to the end of the podcast about male and female being used more with animals and scientifically, both terms are also used in police reports ("I observed a male subject exit the residence," or "the female subject was cited for failure to yield.") What drives me nuts is that newspaper writers won't always try to write around that and work "man" or "woman" into the story (or boy or girl depending on the age, although if the age is unknown, we fall back on male and female).

Richard Says:
9/25/2008 7:18:07 AM

Dear Grammar Girl, Your discussion about Woman Versus Female or Girl Versus Woman reminded me of a problem I seem to have. I will get an e-mail or letter from some that is signed: J.D. Smith. I have no idea of it is a man or woman. How do I address my response? The same is true with first names that are gender vague.

MissMeliss Says:
9/24/2008 11:11:05 PM

Hello, Grammar Girl. I didn't know about your podcast until a few months ago, when someone else on Twitter left an @message that I saw, but I'm glad I've found (and begun following) you. (I'm MissMelysse there.) I don't know if it's a recent trend or if I've merely been unaware of it, but lately I've noticed a lot of people using the phrase "engage with" (as in, "He didn't engage with his students," or "I didn't engage with the bully") and I was wondering if you could address that, here, via Tweet, or in some other fashion? It seems to me that the 'with' is unnecessary. Also, it just sounds weird.

Grammar Girl Says:
9/24/2008 2:25:57 PM

Snoop911, When you are using "man" in the sentence "First man on the moon," you are using it as a noun (as it should be). You're right that it makes sense to use "man" in that sentence. When you say someone is the "first female vice presidential nominee," you are using "female" as an adjective (as it should be).

snoop911 Says:
9/24/2008 1:58:41 PM

According to the podcast, "First Female Vice-President" should be used since the "Man" equivalent doesn't sound as right as "Male" in the same context. However... I got to thinking about other examples where the opposite is true. For example, "First Man on the moon", sounds a lot better than "First Male on the moon"... Are there exceptions for vice-presidential candidates and/or for those orbiting above 200,000 miles? What gives?

Grammar Girl Says:
9/23/2008 9:02:23 PM

Fabian, it's generally looked down on these days to use the word "man" to mean "all people," for the same reason it's looked down on to use "he" to refer to a person of unknown sex. Still, you're right that "man" can be used in this way, for example, as it is in the phrase "Peace on earth and goodwill to men."

Grammar Girl Says:
9/23/2008 8:59:35 PM

A.T. I can't think of a book that would help you, but the phrases you are having trouble with are called "idioms." If you search Google for "idioms" or "English idioms," you will probably find some helpful sites.

Fabian Says:
9/23/2008 7:11:02 PM

English learner here - wouldn't "the first man nominee" have the additional connotation of "mankind" instead of "male"?

A. T. Says:
9/23/2008 2:15:32 PM

Hi GG, I'm a non-native english speaker who's still adjusting to the culture and way of speaking here in the U.S. Most of the people i talk to use a lot of slang, colloquial and figurative words. Sometimes I get lost in the conversation because i don't know what people are talking about. Some of the many examples are "kick the bucket", "have your cake and eat it too". Obviously, I already looked up what those words mean. Is there a book I can read or website I can go to, to look up some words I can use so not to feel left out when I talk to my friends or people? I appreciate your help. Thank you.

Judy Says:
9/23/2008 11:38:34 AM

As a grammarian, linguist and polyglot, I too, will be interested in the distinction between gender and sex, since I consider gender to be a grammatical term. While we're at it, let's add a discussion on linguist versus polyglot. Many use the former when they mean the latter.

Grammar Girl Says:
9/23/2008 11:00:59 AM

We had a problem with our new project management system, and an early draft of the file got posted instead of the final version. The original article contained a paragraph about sex versus gender (we'll probably cover that topic separately in the future), and the correct spelling is "flak," although at least one of my dictionaries also lists "flack" as an acceptable alternative.

Shary Says:
9/23/2008 9:43:11 AM

The lead-in promised talk about sex versus gender. I'm hoping the next episode will cover that.

Joy-Mari Says:
9/23/2008 3:52:39 AM

Hi Grammar Girl, Should it not be flak, and not flack? Or has flack become an acceptable alternative to flak?