Is Sign Language Universal?

Today, I’m going to talk about sign language with David Peach. I became interested in sign language when I learned that my brother is taking American Sign Language as his foreign language in college, and then I saw on David’s Linkedin profile that he’s a missionary to deaf communities. He’s the host of the Missionary Talks podcast (no longer an active show) and he’s @dpeach on Twitter. And most interesting to me, he’s fluent in multiple sign languages. 

Mignon: Hi, David. Thanks for talking with me today. 

David: Hello, Mignon. I’m very excited about being able to share what I know about sign language.

Mignon:  I know, I think it’s fascinating. So what country are you in right now?  

David: Currently, I’m in Argentina, and we’re in the city of La Plata, which is just South of the capital, Buenos Aires. 

Mignon: Oh, and what sign language do they use there? 

David: Here they use the Argentine Sign Language, so it is specific to its country. 

Mignon:  I know nothing about sign language, so I wasn’t even sure there were different sign languages spoken in different countries. Your profile says you’re fluent in multiple sign languages. So what different sign languages do you know? 

David: Well, I’m very comfortable in American Sign Language, Mexican Sign Language, and I’m getting there with Argentine Sign Language. I’ve also learned the Peruvian Sign Language, which isn’t all that different from our American Sign Language because it was taken into Peru in the ’60s by an American missionary, so the sign language they use there is very much the sign language in the United States, and we’ve been in other countries where…such as Cuban Sign Language, but I’ve only learned it really for the time I was there. So I learned it, took it all in, and then was able to communicate—do my work. But that was six years ago, so I don’t really remember it anymore. I’ve had other countries like that where I’ve been in and out kind of quickly but just learned enough to be able to communicate. So while I do know other sign languages I don’t know them as well as the ones I mentioned. 

Do the Different Sign Languages Align with the Different Spoken Languages?

Mignon: And the different sign languages, are they the same as the written and spoken languages in each country? If you have five countries where everyone speaks Spanish, will the deaf people in those countries use the same sign language or does it not overlap? 

David: No, it’s limited to geographical areas and some of that’s just because of locally where a school is. South Africa is a really good example of this, in kind of the other direction: While South Africa has many official spoken languages, there are only two sign languages in the country. There’s multiple spoken languages and two sign languages. Here in South America, while we primarily speak Spanish as the spoken language, there are sign languages for each of the different countries and some of the countries would have multiple sign languages. 

Mignon: Is it harder for deaf people to travel and communicate with each other? 

David: No, not really. It’s interesting, I just came back from a conference in Las Vegas where there were 23 thousand deaf people from around the world, and it was interesting to see the different sign languages being spoken, and yet, the deaf people were able to communicate with one another. It may not have been a very deep conversation, but the ability to communicate was there. Some of that would be very limited communication. For example, I met a man from Thailand and we talked—we communicated—but as far as sharing family history and that kind of information, that didn’t happen, and I’m a hearing person, but a deaf person is even more adept at being able to pick up another sign language or at least get the rudiments of it to be able to communicate. 

Next: Do Deaf Students Take Foreign Language Classes?

Do Deaf Students Take Foreign Language Classes?

Mignon: It’s typical for American students to take a foreign language in high school or in college. Do deaf students do the same in their schools? For someone taking American Sign Language in school, would they be able to take French Sign Language as a foreign language? 

David: I’ve not heard of that, but there is one liberal arts university and it’s the only one in the world I understand: Gallaudet University in Washington, DC. There they would have deaf from around the world, so they have a lot of cultural interchange with the students and they may teach different languages. But as far as in high school  or a normal college where it would predominantly hearing people with some deaf students, they’d be using interpreters or maybe have a deaf program. But I’ve never heard of a foreign language program like that, a foreign language program for the deaf. 

The History of Sign Language

Mignon: I was trying to get ready for our interview, and the history of sign language was fascinating. First of all, it doesn’t seem to go back all that far, and second of all, I read that British and American Sign Language are very different from each other because of the way the languages came about. Can you talk a little bit about that? 

David: As far as the history of sign language, what we think of as modern sign language, we can trace back to the 1700s. But there are old writings: Plato talked people signing, mutes signing, back and forth, so there’s a long history of some type of communication using sign languages. 

When we think of sign language today, particularly American Sign Language, we trace our history back to the mid-1700s. There was an abbey, a French preacher, who started a school for the deaf in Paris, and he used the sign language that he saw the deaf using, and he adapted that to a language that followed more of the French structure of grammar and such—word order, those types of things—and that became known as the Old Signed French. 

That fellow taught a fellow sign language, or taught this guy his education. His name was Clerc, and Clerc was met by an American in the early 1800s 1(816-1817), and this man was Gallaudet. He met Clerc in France and brought Clerc (Clerc was a deaf man himself), back to the United States in 1817 and they started a school for the deaf.

They were using at the time the Old Signed French, and they taught the sign language to their area (Hartford, Connecticut) and the English sentence structure, the English grammar, it was all exciting to them. But they noticed out on the playgrounds that the kids were speaking a different grammar, a different language, and even though it was the same signs, they would use them differently. That then developed into what we call today American Sign Language, so it had its roots in the French sign language.

Actually, the French sign language was very well developed or at least well promoted during that time period, because there are also other countries who also use the French sign language, at least as their base. Mexico has their sign language base in French; it was taken over to Mexico in 1815 just two years before it came to the United States, and those two languages through the years have developed, but they don’t look a whole lot alike. While they have their roots in French sign language their actual usage today is different. 

Our Argentine sign language comes from Italy, but the Italian signs, its roots are in the French sign language of the same period, so there are some similarities to the sign language we use here. However, not all of its uses have the same grammatical structure, even though the signs are really different in different places. So that’s kind of a quick history of the sign language.

British sign language and American sign language are totally different.

The British Sign Language, however, I really don’t know the history of British Sign Language.  I was in London on a stopover this last year in December, and in the airport they had the news going and they had an interpreter there. I was all excited to watch because I know a little bit of British Sign Language. I was watching and I couldn’t understand anything interpreter was saying. Even though I could speak English, and I could speak to any hearing person there, I couldn’t understand the interpreter even though I know ASL. So even though we speak the same spoken language, the sign languages are totally different. 

Next: Sign Language Grammar

Sign Language Grammar

Mignon: That’s amazing. One thing I was going to ask you is about the difference between words and sentence structure. You brought that up a minute ago. Do different sign languages, do they share—for example, English has words that come from French and you can kind of tell that they have the same root even though they are different now—are there signs like that, that are different, but that have evolved, differently in different languages? 

David: Yes, but they are really two different grammatical sentence structures and then the actual signs. Let me talk about the signs themselves. The signs will see a lot of similarity in the way signs are used. For example, certain words that are action words, such as “to give,” “you give this to him,” while the sign in American Sign Language, the Mexican sign language, and the Argentine sign language is all different, the physical sign, the way you put your hands in the shape, the way you show that action, is the same. There would be similarities in the way the action is done. It would be true that there are some signs in the three different languages but they might have a different English or Spanish word meaning. There would be similar signs but have a different meaning. 

First tell me we’re talking about a house. Then tell me it’s white.

Then to the other question, to the other side of this, is usage. While the signs may be totally different, a lot of the grammar is the same. The American Sign Language grammar and the Argentine sign language grammar I would call a more natural grammar. For example, in English, we say “the White House,” that’s where the President lives, the white house. In sign language you would say “the house white” and many spoken languages do that. They put the noun there first and then they modify it, and that’s what we do in sign language. It really makes a whole lot more sense: I’m going to tell you first what I’m talking about and then I’ll tell you which one. For example if I said, “the red.” The red? The red what? What is it that he’s talking about? It’s the red thing! And then I say “car.”  The red car. Now you know that out of all these red things in front of me that I’m talking about the car. 

If we did more of a natural grammar, we would say the car and then you know that the object I’m talking about is red and that’s the way sign language is in many cases; they’ll turn it around to more of a natural progression of things the way they’re done. There are sentence structure rules for how sign language is done, but in English you can change your sentence structure and still have proper grammar, but there are rules for how you’re supposed to structure the sentences in sign language. 

Things like you would take and say your subject and then make a comment on it, they call it subject predicate: sentence structure or sometimes you would have your time and then your topic and  hen you make your comment. For example, you asked me in an e-mail how do you even show time in sign language. Now actual American Sign Language, now there’s really a couple of different sign languages we use in the United States, one of them is called ASL, and then to the other side of that spectrum is Signed English, which is you take and you go back to what Gallaudet and Clerc learned in Paris: you would take the French and you’d make the sign language work with that structure. We have that same thing in the United States and and it’s called Signed English. 

We’re trying to put a sign to every English word and so there’s two different mindsets, two different grammatical structures. It’s a big exciting controversy to get yourself into, but as far as strictly American Sign Language and sentence structure and such, to show your time, you would say “yesterday” or “in the past” and then you’d say what it is your’e talking about and then you make your comment about it. You do your time, your subject and then your predicate, what your commentary about that time and subject was. That’s the way you show your past tense, and your future tense, and you don’t have to have a special sign just to show that this is the word with the “-ed” ending on it to show that it is past tense. 

Next: Usage Arguments and Abbreviations

Sign Language Usage Arguments

Mignon: Oh, so it’s a sentence marker; that’s efficient. Your comment about the two languages reminded me of another question I have. I was wondering if there are usage arguments in sign language. We argue about should you or should you not start a sentence with “hopefully,” are there those kinds of arguments in sign language too? 

David: [chuckles] Oh yes, those are very fun and many times those usage arguments are done by hearing people or it’s something we talk about in the classroom. If I put out a video and this is my video and I’m talking about this product that my company sells, nobody really talks about whether I used that sign properly here or not, if I’m a deaf person. But if I’m a hearing person that puts out that video then it gets critiqued by all other hearing interpreters and sometimes deaf people, so yes, there are usage arguments.

You asked me in an e-mail about manuals of style (such as the Chicago Manual of Style) and such, do we have that. We have many of those and just like in English the nice thing about standards is there are so many to choose from. You can choose which book you want to follow here or there. For day-to-day communications, of course, you would have your discussions and arguments, but really the matter is communication and many deaf people are just interested in communicating, whether it’s grammatically correct or not as far as what is a proper correct grammar, you know, the proper English grammar is what we have all agreed on and have decided this is right or not, there’s nothing, no laws in the universe that says it has to be done this way, it’s because we’ve agreed it has to be done this way. And that’s the same way in sign language grammar, it’s that you know if it’s accepted and everyone agrees to it then that’s our accepted grammar. 

Abbreviations in Sign Language

Mignon: It sounds very much like spoken English too. There’s a subset of people who care and will fight about the rules, but the much larger group of people just talk the way they’re going to talk and speak the way they’re going to speak and that’s the way it is.  

I had thrown out on Twitter to see if anyone had specific questions for you and @runnessierun had a couple of questions. One of them if there are signs for abbreviations, are there signs for slang or internet abbreviations or things like that that evolve over time? 

The sign for “train gone” means you’re too late to join the conversation.

David: Sure. And really, those types of abbreviations may not be, like we abbreviate a certain thing in English and in sign language that may or may not be abbreviated. But they would have other things that they would say. For example, the deaf use this phrase “train gone,” and that is when somebody comes into a conversation and the conversation is ending and they say “Hey, what are you talking about?” The deaf people would just look at him and sign the words “train” and then “go,” meaning you’ve missed the boat, we’re done talking about that, we’re moving on, and so they have a lot of little abbreviations like that. 

The nature of sign language is in some ways abbreviated. Let me give you an example. It’s called a pro-drop language. If I know what I’m talking about, and you know what I’m talking about, then there’s no reason to talk about it, the thing we’re talking about. For example, I say, “You give the book to her.” If I know I’m talking about the book, and you know I’m talking about the book, and she’s standing right there, I can just do the sign “give,” from you to her. I’m just doing one sign but grammatically it means “You give the book to her.” There are a lot of abbreviations and things like that. 

You would also show facially many abbreviations too. For example, “I don’t like this.” I don’t have to sign the words “I don’t like,” I can just sign the word “like” and give an ugly face with it and you’ll know that I don’t like this. As far as written communication, the deaf also have their own written shortcuts, like “by the way,” but as far as spoken or signed communication, it kind of already is a language of abbreviations.

Next: How People Get Their (Sometimes Insulting) Sign Names

How People Get Their Sign Names

Mignon: OK. So @runnessierun also wanted to know if there are signs for common proper nouns—like is there a sign for David, John, or Sarah, the names? 

David: That’s what we call our sign name. For example, my name is David,  and it’s a very common name. Lots of people are named David. What I would do is, when I’m meeting a person for the first time, I would say “Hi, my name is David,” and spell my name for them. Then I would say “my sign is” and then I have a sign that I do which for me the word “peach”:

You scrape your cheek, so I scrape my cheek with the letter “d,” and that’s me. That sign means they’re talking about me. There are signs for proper nouns and places that are just kind of agreed upon. However, somebody I have never met doesn’t know what my sign name is, so that has to be transmitted each time you jump into a conversation like that. 

Mignon: Oh that’s fascinating. Do most people pick like their own sign name or do their parents? 

David:  Usually the community picks it, and it’s not always flattering. For example, if a person has a funny way they walk, then the deaf will start signing to talk about them using maybe a gesture they make when they walk. Or one of my friends, he used to wear big hearing aids and was the only one with that style of hearing aid, so his name became synonymous with that style of hearing aid. Of course it’s not anything flattering. It’s usually not flattering, but the community usually picks out your sign name. You can pick it out yourself, and it is the safest thing. You pick out what your sign name is going to be, and you just tell people that’s what it is, and that way you don’t end up with something you don’t want. 

Mignon: That sounds like the best way. And then @grammarhulk on Twitter wanted to know how dialects and accents are expressed in sign language? Would there be a sign equivalent of a “Hulk speak” dialect? 

David: There can be and what you will often see, for example in the United States, just thinking about one word that you often see different is the word “birthday.” In the South, you sign it one way, in certain areas in the central United States they sign it a different way. I know probably six or eight different ways to sign the word “birthday.” It depends on who you’re talking to as to the way they say it. I just pick up right there and the way they talk, and I may use that sign back to them or I may continue to use my word, my sign for “birthday.” And so they would understand me. You do see some variations like that, some dialects. Here in Argentina, I’ve seen it even more just moving from one city to another, you’re going to see a big difference in certain ways they do the alphabet, but not the whole alphabet. A few letters change when you move from one city to another. You see some dialectical things there in the sign language in just the way they do individual words. 

Talking About People Who Aren’t Present

Every person you’re talking about needs a location in space.

Mignon: Fascinating. @Hannaediting on Twitter wanted to know if there are any issues with signing when you switch between first, second, and third person so if you’re saying I saw the band and then you should see the band, how do you show what person you’re writing in? 

David: Like I said, sign language is a pro-drop language so that means you drop any kind of pronouns that aren’t needed—so anything that isn’t already understood. If it’s not understood you need to say it, but otherwise, I’m the one that saw the band, or you’re the one that saw it, so just the way the sign is done, that usually eliminates the need for switching which person and who. 

The problem comes when I’m talking to you, and we’re talking about my friend John. “John saw the band.” He’s not here physically present with us. I have to set him up somewhere in space, so I locate him in a certain spot, and when I refer to John I point to this certain spot and you know I’m talking about John. Then if you also have Bill that you’re talking about and Bill isn’t there, I have to set up another space for him. So you can take care of those person, particularly third person, where it’s not just “he” it’s “which he” you’re talking about. You can do this through spacial location. 

Mignon: That could get confusing if you’re talking about a lot of people, you’d have to remember where they all are. 

David: Usually, in my case as an interpreter, you interpret a story and the hearing person will tell this story and he’s got six or seven different characters in it. Well, he just talks about John and Bill, and Mignon, and so he just mentions the name. Well, where did I put that person on my grid or in my spacing? So you have to remember all of that. 

Next: Eavesdropping in the Deaf Community

Eavesdropping

Mignon: It strikes me that sign language is much more in physical space than spoken language. So I was wondering, are there issues with privacy and eavesdropping when you have a lot of deaf people together having conversations? Is there an etiquette where you kind of look away or something like that?

David: That’s a good word, “etiquette.” Yes, you don’t just stand there and eavesdrop on somebody’s conversation. You can tell if a conversation is heated or romantic.

When you have a big group of people you have that. When it’s really a private conversations, there’s are ways to go stand over in a corner and block what people can see.

But it is more of an etiquette than anything. It’s just deaf people when they’re in a crowd with other folks, they’re talking, I’m going to be kind to my friends and not look in on every bit of their conversation. It’s more just etiquette thing than it is necessarily how we deal with this. You deal with it on a natural level. And then of course, if it really is a private conversation you can go into another room and take care of it.

Sign Language Poetry

Mignon: I guess it’s the same issue as being overheard at a party while you’re talking. The last question I have is from @pinkyandrexa, and she asks whether you know of any poets who do poetry videos in sign language. And you had mentioned earlier about people doing videos, so I was wondering generally if there is a big community of deaf people who make YouTube videos.

David: There are lots of videos there. Maybe you’re wanting to know about a certain issue. You can do a search there, put in ASL (that’s we call American Sign Language) and you can find that. 

As far as poets, I saw some folks way back 20 years ago when I was learning sign language, I saw some videos that would be visual poetry, that would be what we would consider sign language poetry but I don’t remember who that was or where you might be able to get your hands on it today, but I would imagine that you could find that type of storytelling. It is a really more of a storytelling done in a certain way. For example, there’s one that’s just humorous. You take the hand shapes of the alphabet and you tell a story going A to Z using signs or gestures that use the alphabet in order. One of the stories I remember seeing was a cowboy walks into a saloon and he goes through this whole routine of walking into the saloon and using these certain handshapes so you could see the story unfold A through Z,  so it’s more of a visual type of poetry, if you want to call it poetry. I guess that would be the best way to term it. 

Sign Language Jokes and Puns

Mignon: I just got one more question. @kaserpents wants to know if there are puns that only make sense in sign language.

David: Yes, there are.The opposite of that is where we often get in trouble as hearing people is trying to interpret our jokes into sign language. What is funny to us because of the pun doesn’t make any sense to the deaf because their sign isn’t tied to the English word necessarily. They may not know that these two words sound alike. So the other way is true. There are puns where the signs are similar but not exactly the same, so you can do a visual pun that way. 

Mignon: David, thank you so much for talking with me today. I just found this whole thing fascinating. 

You can find David online at missionarytalk.com, dpeach.com, and learnsigns.com.

Images courtesy of Shutterstock.